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 Going Deeper part 23


Editor's note: This transcript has been lightly edited to bring clarification to certain points of the dialogue and for easier readability. For this reason, it does not match the corresponding audio mp3 word-for-word. However, the overall content and the expressed ideas remain unchanged.


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The Release from All Conflict

Participant: I have a question. How can I continue to function within…anything…that holds objectives and goals that are form goals whether that be a work setting, an organisation of which I’m a member, a family, a marriage, a country? I mean anything at all. How can I function within a context that has form goals, if I’m determined to have only the one goal of peace?

Speaker: Ok. We have to take a look at the assumptions in your question because we mentioned just shortly ago, that the inner and the outer are not different. Your question is asking how can “I” function? “I”, a person, function in a context that has other goals? So you’re implying that the institution in which you’re working has goals. Institutions don’t have goals. Institutions are ideas in the mind that are projected outward. Situations, families, don’t have goals of themselves. There is no objective society that’s outside of the mind. There are no objective institutions or workplaces or families that have different goals than the self. There is only the mind that holds onto concepts and the mind can hold conflicting goals. So, the belief in personhood, that subject/object split that we’ve talked about, the inner and the outer being the same instead of different, is a very central point in answering your question.

Participant: So you’re saying the question really stands on making that distinction, between the inner and the outer?

Speaker: Yes.

Participant: So the question is a declaration?

Speaker: Yes. The question stands on the assumption that there is an inner and an outer. For instance, the idea that this workplace has goals that seem to be different than my goal for peace so there’s a conflict here. It’s not seen that the institution itself is a concept in my mind. It gets back to the deepest level that there is nothing outside of you, that the world is simply a world of ideas in my mind projected out. Then, the mind forgets that it is simply one’s own projection or the dream and one perceives through the body’s eyes and hears through the body’s ears and thinks that it’s a person, in a world that is objectively different from it. That the person is the subject, which has subjective experience, and that the world is the object. Whether it’s the world of my family, my business world, my community, my nation, my planet, my cosmos and so on and so forth. That world is seen to be objectively different than the me, the small “me”. But the question presumes that.

Now this is very deep and it’s very abstract and it’s very ultimate. It actually contains the release and if you can begin to grasp that then you’ve got your foot in the door to being released from all conflict. To bring it back to what might be seen as a more practical level of, “I’m working in a place and I’ve got my boss telling me certain things that I need to do and I want peace but there seems to be a lot of competition in the workforce and so on and so forth.” The Holy Spirit works with the mind where it believes it’s at. So, in other words, if the mind believes in separation, the mind believes in a time/space universe, the mind believes in bodies. The mind believes it is a body or will stay within a body. The mind believes that it is a person and has characteristics that is working and has a job, that has a boss, we’ll say. The mind believes that it has a country, that it has a family, a community, it’s made up this construct, it’s projected a construct, and it believes that it is the construct, it is the concept.

Then, the Holy Spirit has to work with that mind to help it see that these constructs, these concepts, are nothing more than concepts. They don’t have any reality. And so, the Holy Spirit works with the mind where it believes it’s at.

So, for instance, one starting out working with the Course is not asked in Lesson 1 to lay aside all thoughts, all concepts, all beliefs that one has ever held about the world. No, the lesson starts off with, ”Nothing I see means anything.” It’s a simple lesson that is staring to detach from the meaning of things that the physical eyes see.

A first glimmer of “seeing is not believing” or the old wives tales of “what you see is what you get”, there’s a glimmer of the idea that there’s something beyond what I see with the naked eye so to speak.

So, one could take the Course and apply the workbook lessons and take an idea for the day seemingly as a person, seemingly into a work setting for instance or into a church setting or into a Laundromat or wherever one seems to go and to use the idea to help loosen the mind’s grasp or grip onto these concepts. And so it’s just like a loosening of these concepts, a slight detachment little by little and it seems to happen in segments, just little by little.

So, in the ultimate sense, when you carry it out, when you hold peace as your goal, you will begin to detach from the ways of the world, in the mind. There may be form changes in the seeming lifestyle on the screen as well, but these will just be reflections from changes in the mind.

Participant: It seems like there would almost have to be form changes. That that would just automatically follow from the changes in the mind. That as the mind loosens up the form would loosen up.

Speaker: Yes. And, if study the life of Jesus, whether it’s from the Bible or the Urantia book or much more detailed study, if you study the life of some of the eastern saints, like Amir Baba or Manamahashee, if you study the life of Krishna Murti, from early childhood on and everything, this is what you see. When we say study the life, you can look at the form and you can look at what the body seemed to be doing, but really when we’re talking about life we’re talking about the mind. You can study the teachings of these wonderful teachers and you can hear them speak of the detachment. You know, the Buddha talking about all grief comes from attachment. It’s been around for centuries. The mystics talked about this. You can see in their life, that we don’t see Jesus having to deal with, when he’s on his public ministry, a boss telling him ‘you really need to do this…this is our policy, business policy, our corporate policy. You know, you don’t see Krishnamurti having to deal with issues of his family or of his mother saying, ‘Oh honey, I don’t want you to do that.’ and him feeling very distraught. I mean these are beings that clearly begin to see that my mind is the cause of the dream world. I am not a helpless victim of circumstances and events and things that happen to me. Beyond that, I am not a part of the world. I am not in the world but the world is in my mind and I can choose to give the world and my mind these thoughts another purpose. I can choose to detach from the ego’s purpose, which is to use the world to reinforce the conflict in the mind and to maintain the belief in separation, or, I can detach and forgive and overlook the appearances of the world. I am the dreamer of the dream. I don’t have to answer to the dream figures because I hear only one Voice, I hear the Voice for God.

Participant: The wisdom is really the recognition of who I am?

Speaker: Yes. There’s great power in that recognition. Defencelessness and strength go together. Innocence and strength are attributes in the metaphysical perspective that go together. This is not so in the world. One who is defenceless or harmless is seen to be a pushover, or, is seen that they will be just mowed over by the world…

Participant: A wimp.

Speaker: A wimp…victimised by this mighty external world. But, to the saint, the mystic sees that of course the world is not this external thing, and that I am not this little body in this giant external world but, as a matter of fact, this body and the other bodies and the world itself are simply projections and there is no fear of projections, in a healed mind.

So, it’s a matter of being practical. This can seem very deep, it can seem very metaphysical. I assure you that as you continue and continue to step, one step in front of the other and follow the voice within, and apply the principles that this will seem very natural. Then there isn’t the sense of people pleasing and co-dependencies that are within a mind that is very insecure of it’s own identity and needs these externals to prop it up or build up it’s esteem. That all true self esteem and self worth comes from remembering one’s true Identity as spirit and dis-identifying from all the projections in the external world. Seeing the blocks for what they are and simply withdrawing belief from them, withdrawing investment in them. It’s really that simple.

Participant: One thing we could go in to is the whole concept of sacrifice. Actually, I guess it’s kind of a misconception…sacrifice. Say something about that.

Speaker: Well, to a deceived mind that believes in the world, the world is obviously something. It’s something “important”. It has existence and it has importance. If we get back to the idea of ordering thoughts and our hierarchy of illusions discussion, there are elements of the perceived world that have more importance than others. Anything that is a projection and has been given by the mind, is perceived as a sacrifice to give up. It’s only the awareness of the lack of value of something, of the nothingness of some projection or some thing that completely eliminates the idea of sacrifice. The sacrifice comes in in placing value in idols.

Participant: And then feeling like that has to be forfeited?

Speaker: Yes.

Participant: For some reason?

Speaker: Yes.

Participant: I guess it’s always for the purpose of getting something that’s considered more valuable then that you’re willing to forfeit to have that?

Speaker: Yes, the idol is seen as having more value then this hypothetical thing called salvation or redemption or peace. Peace is perceived as a nice idea, a utopian idea; having faith, in a sense, blind faith, in something unseen, like God, or the Holy Spirit is valued but the mind is still afraid of this light, it’s still uncertain about the Spirit. It’s like the form, the concrete, has become familiar and comfortable to it. And, it’s more comforting to it at times; it believes in clinging to the old familiar and comfortable than to what it sees as a risk, opening up to something that it is unsure about and uncertain of.

So, obviously, hand in hand with laying aside beliefs in the world comes the development of trust. One has to develop trust in the Holy Spirit; one has to develop trust in the unseen as being actually the “reality” of things, to follow that, to lay aside the investment in the world. Without the development of trust, the belief in sacrifice clicks in. It’s a very, very deep corner stone of the ego’s thought system and that belief is so deep that it is perceived as a sacrifice to give up the things or the valuing of the world and the ordering and the judgement and the hierarchy of illusions.

Participant: So the mind really has to have some confidence that there is something else it’s going toward before it’s ready to let loose of what it knows?

Speaker: Yes. If we try to even throw a definition of sacrifice out we go back to the Teacher’s Manual around page 32 and 33 or so. “What is the real meaning of sacrifice?” then, we get that sacrifice always means the giving up of what you want and “What, Oh holy Child of God, do you want?” The question comes up in a kind of rhetorical or a sarcastic sense, “Is it a sacrifice to give up pain?”


Continue to Part 24

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