Going Deeper part 18
Editor's note: This transcript has been lightly
edited to bring clarification to certain points of the dialogue and
for easier readability. For this reason, it does not match the corresponding
audio mp3 word-for-word. However, the overall content and the expressed
ideas remain unchanged.
Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 | Part 6 | Part 7 | Part 8 | Part 9 | Part 10 | Part 11 | Part 12 | Part 13 | Part 14
Part 15 | Part 16 | Part 17 | Part 18 | Part 19 | Part 20 | Part 21 | Part 22 | Part 23 | Part 24 | Part 25 | Part 26
Dissolving the Projected God
Speaker: What we talk about today relates to our talk
about the construct; the self concept. Everything you’re identified
with externally is part of that construct; personhood, world, country,
sexuality; male/female, skills, attributes etc.
Participant: And this is saying that even my idea of God is just part
of a construct.
Speaker: Yes, the deceived mind has a projected God. It can be a God
of the Old Testament for example, anthropomorphic, given human qualities,
a God that’s being angry at times, punitive at times, and loving
at other times. This is a projected God, a God of the future; God will
come and will someday save mankind. It’s like a hologram. It’s
like the mind has a hologram of time and space around it, to protect
it from love, and it has to give up the investment and the belief in
the hologram, before it can spring into awareness.
Participant: So it even has to give up its belief in God?
Speaker: Yes, the belief in a projected God.
Participant: And that is the belief the mind holds; a belief in a projected
Participant: So part of the undoing and unlearning is giving up the
belief in God as the deceived mind holds it.
Speaker: Yes. On the surface it might sound like we’re getting
in to blasphemy here, someone might think we’re telling them to
give up their belief in God. A passage we can use is on page 360 in
the workbook, the first sentence: “Simply do this: Be still, and
lay aside all thoughts of what you are and what God is.” There
it is, very clearly stated in A Course in Miracles of laying aside all
thoughts about what you are and what God is. “Empty your mind
of everything it thinks is either true or false, or good or bad, of
every thought it judges worthy, and of all the ideas of which it is
ashamed. Hold on to nothing.” This relates to the passage on page
390 in the Textbook: “Everything you recognize you identify with
externals, something outside itself.” There is nothing outside
the Son of God. There is nothing else than God and Creation and the
In a sense of abstract light and infinity is truth. Truth has existence
and nothing else does. So this kind of rules out the cosmos. “The
body cannot know and while you limit your awareness to its tiny senses,
you will not see the grandeur that surrounds you. God cannot come into
a body, nor can you join Him there.” So this rules out the immortality
of the body as an idea. “Limits on love will always seem to shut
Him out, and keep you apart from Him. The body is a tiny fence around
a little part of a glorious and complete idea. It draws a circle, infinitely
small, around a very little segment of Heaven, splintered from the whole,
proclaiming that within it is your kingdom where God can enter not.”
And as we close this reading from the Course we can jump to the end
of next page, 391: “Do not accept this little fenced-off aspect
as yourself”. And the beginning of the next paragraph: “Love
knows no bodies, and reaches to everything created like itself. Its
total lack of limit is its meaning.”
So this really paints a picture for us of the abstractness of the infinite
nature of love, and of God, and really lays it out that there is no
reconciliation between the body, the world and God. That God did not
create the body and God did not create the world. That these are temporal,
fleeting, changing and in the ultimate sense therefore have no existence
because what God creates is eternal, changeless and limitless.
Participant: And only what God created exists.
Participant: So you made some references to the Creations of the Son
of God. Let’s talk about my creations. That comes up repeatedly
in the Course and I notice it seems pretty vague to me and I guess it
would because the creations are abstract and the creations are not known
to the deceived mind. It’s only when the deceived mind is no longer
deceived that the Creations will be recognized and experienced?
Speaker: An awake mind that knows what Creation is and knows what creativity
is, is aware of that which has come from its extension.
Participant: So creativity has nothing to do with what might be thought
of as creativity in terms of a very creative, artistic, imaginative
mind that expresses itself?
Speaker: Creativity has absolutely nothing to do with imagination. In
a sense one could even say that ACIM is a very creative expression,
pages and pages of Shakespearian blank verse, iambic pentameter, of
very poetic verses. And in that sense ACIM is something being very expressive
of something much higher. This is often the sense of creativity in this
world, but Creation and true creativity have nothing at all to do with
this world; have nothing at all to do with the symbols and the forms
and images of the world. That’s imagination. Creation involves
extension, which is another word for it, which in a sense is Spirit
begetting Spirit. There is increase involved but not a quantifiable
increase. It’s not like in this world; one, two, three, four and
more, in a quantifiable sense. But we read about increase, that the
Kingdom of Heaven; God and His Creations, are always increasing.
Participant: What does that mean, increase but not in a quantifiable
Speaker: Well, this is expansive, yet without the concept of size. It’s
difficult to conceptualize that. But revelation is not transferrable
in a conceptual sense - in terms of words, which is precisely the point.
We speak in words of concepts and try to convey it. But revelation is
an experience beyond concepts. Creation, creativity in the sense we’re
speaking of is able to be experienced but it is not transferable in
the conceptual sense. It can’t be transferred through words but
it’s a highly personal experience as the Course tells us in the
early part of the text; so even attempt to explain these things is in
a sense missing the mark.
Participant: To explain the creations?
Speaker: Yes, to explain the Creations. Jesus kind of takes a theoretical
stab at it, explaining in the text Creations being extensions. We can
talk about cause and effect, God being the Cause and God’s Creation,
Christ being His Effect. And the Son has creative ability and is a co
Creator in the sense of having the power of God and having the ability
to extend that. That’s what Creation is, to extend, to increase.
So the Creations are the Effect of the Son of God.
Participant: What comes through to me in various places in the Course,
about the Son’s Creations, is that there’s much joy associated
with them. Even though it seems at this point I’m not recognizing
what those creations are, and I can’t talk about them. But they
do exist and there’s much joy associated with my Creations.
Speaker: Yes. In a sense the Creations exist, in the ultimate sense,
and the veil, within the framework of the dream, is drawn between my
Creations and my awareness of my Creations. In a sense when the veil
is lifted there is a full awareness. It’s just a state of being
one with my Creations.
Participant: Are there things in the world that in some way reflect
Speaker: Well the things in the world are part of the veil and literally
block the awareness of Creation. The deceived mind projects out separate
things that are seen as separate and apart from the fabric; trees, caterpillars,
birds, butterflies, bears, rainbows, bodies and so on. And this is the
veil being seen. This is perception. The Creations are part of an experience,
of a union, that literally, when the veil is lifted, is experienced,
and in that sense there are no things in this world that are reflections.
There is a way of looking upon the world, that is a reflection. If we
said that the specifics, for example butterflies are reflections of
my Creations or of God or Heaven we get back into the idea of seeing
God in specifics, in the world, which can’t be so since God knows
There are two lessons in the Course; God is in everything I see, followed
by God is in everything I see because God is in my mind. And in this
sense we’re talking about a way of looking, or a vision of the
Holy Spirit. Not ordering the world into a hierarchy of illusions. But
with that vision, seeing the false as false, seeing instead of separate
objects but just a mosaic or a blanket of forgiveness, covering all
of the seeming perceived, separate objects in the world. Or to get to
our discussion of ending the duality of subject and object, from that
state of unity which the Holy Spirit is, or true perception, there is
the reflection that is the reflection of love. It still involves perception
so it’s not love itself but it’s a new purpose given to
the projected world.
Participant: So it’s kind of an experience of that unity, of that
oneness, that can be said is a reflection, just like the unity or the
oneness, that in a sense comes through in a Holy relationship, can be
said to be a reflection of the oneness, the only oneness that there
Speaker: Yes, the Holy relationship in this world is a learning accomplishment,
and it’s literally unlearning the false ideas and beliefs, and
learning true perception. And in that sense it’s a reflection
of unity, and a reflection of oneness. But in the ultimate sense union
or oneness is abstract, is knowledge or Heaven. So any time we speak
of the perceptual realm we can speak of the reflection of love or the
reflection of union.
Participant: We’re always somewhat removed from the whole roam
of revelation, when we’re talking about anything that has a perceptual
component in it. That’s what you’re saying?
Speaker: Yes. Knowledge – even words don’t just even come
close to it. To say God is.
There’s a part in the workbook where Jesus says; we say ‘God
is’ and then seize to speak. And that is a metaphor of a state
of being, that just is. And it’s pretty much left at that. There
are other passages where Jesus will even begin to speak a bit and then
saying ‘I cannot speak of this; there is no point in speaking
We’ve got work to do in the sense of training your perception
and of looking at the false ideas and concepts in your mind and disidentifying
from those. Too much work to do along those lines than to be spending
our time trying to describe the indescribable.
Participant: Is it in the Absence from Felicity that one section ends
where Jesus is saying: and of this I cannot speak, or something?
Speaker: Yes, in a section called: ‘Was there a physical resurrection’,
that section speaks about what you’re talking about.
Participant: And he’s speaking about what’s beyond the body,
what’s beyond the resurrection.
Continue to Part 19