Going Deeper part 16
Editor's note: This transcript has been lightly
edited to bring clarification to certain points of the dialogue and
for easier readability. For this reason, it does not match the corresponding
audio mp3 word-for-word. However, the overall content and the expressed
ideas remain unchanged.
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Ordering of thoughts
Participant: So having preferences is the same as ordering
ones thoughts. If I’m ordering or ranking my thoughts then I’ve
Speaker: Yes. This could seem to be very overwhelming. It can be tempting
to think “well, this is too big of a job for me, I’d better
work on this person over there” since preferences run so deep.
They run right down to the core of the personhood-idea. For every person
there seems to be an enormous number of preferences and likes and dislikes,
and it’s even encouraged to be unique and be individual and to
have your own opinion.
Participant: To know what you like and to know what you want and what
you don’t want.
Speaker: Yes. And at this point we could say that it’s truly important
to focus on forgiveness and focus on that one intent. To focus on watching
the thoughts and slowly pulling away from investing in them and let
the joy of following the Holy Spirit as these thoughts become unordered,
undone so to speak; that the constructed order becomes undone. This
is a process of following the joy in the joy of connecting. The joy
that comes from not judging is so strong and so intense that these preferences
fade away. That the temptation when you hear that these preferences
are all part of the ego concept can be to go: “Alright I’m
going stop this instant with making all these preferences”. So
there can be some level confusion there where you’re trying to
change the form; for instance, quit your preference for smoking or coffee
or whatever, without having the mind shift on the inside, without following
the joy. By following the joy the mind allows these preferences and
desires to fade away as it gets focused on its one function. Without
that focus the level confusion can creep in and we’re back to
changing behaviors without changing the mind, without letting go of
the false beliefs.
Participant: The question that came to my mind before when you spoke
about the fact that this body is not immortal was that the ego would
love to have me believe that it could be. There can be a belief that
the body can be immortal. I can remember believing that and being very
excited about that whole idea. And it seemed very logical to me when
I was learning about this that in fact the case is, that it’s
only the minds belief that it’s not immortal that would have it
Speaker: Yes. If we take it and really string it out. The ego is for
something that is nothing. It has very much the illusion of being very
genius. And that’s certainly the experience in the world. It seems
to have made up a world, a giant cosmos apart from Spirit and apart
from abstract union. And it seems to have great diversity, great variety,
there seems to be great amounts of different skills and many different
choices and menus to pick from. In the sense of projection we now have
TVs, camcorders and DVDs, and it’s like movies within movies.
The movie of the world is one movie and within that movie we have another
projection. The fragmentation just continues in these seeming smaller
pieces. But the one thing that the ego has tried to come up with as
an answer to Heaven is immortality, which it has and never will be able
to mimic or to create. Because immortality is an attribute of God, of
Creation and the ego is a defense against that. The ego is literally
a puff of nothingness that did not come from God. That is not immortal.
The ego seemed to have a beginning and it will seem to have an end.
But this is all within the fabric or the framework of the dream. So
the ego never has and will never be able to develop immortality. But
that doesn’t stop it from at least having the idea of immortality,
of the idea that the body can be made to live forever. The body is form
and form and Spirit have no reconciliation, no meeting point. One Spirit
exists and form and time and space do not exist.
Participant: And the very nature of form is that it’s finite,
that it’s not eternal and cannot therefore be immortal.
Speaker: Yes, it has boundaries. Every form has boundaries and limits
and God and Creation do not.
Participant: I remember something I’ve heard about this person
Babaji in India. He seemed to be proof that the body is immortal. It
seemed that he’d been around for periods of time and he would
dematerialize. He would not be around for other periods of time and
then he would rematerialize and stay for a while and then dematerialize
and so on. I suppose it has been going on for quite some time now. And
that seem to be a proof that we don’t have to die, that the body
can be immortal if it’s held in the mind that way.
Speaker: Just to perceive a body or a vision though, still gets back
to perception; however the body comes and goes. But in a sense your
example can be a symbol – for many a very comforting symbol. It
can be a symbol of teaching. Those who have completely laid aside the
body; their thoughts are always available to the deceived mind, as a
help. And the vision may appear from time to time if that would be helpful.
The Holy Spirit can reach the deceived mind in many ways and these are
nothing more than symbols. For example the seeing of the Virgin Mary
in the catholic tradition over in Medjugorge is another example of a
vision that can be seen and can be helpful. But still they are perceptions.
Participant: So it’s still perceptual and it’s still unreal
but it’s just that it’s helpful. And it’s reaching
the mind where it is.
Speaker: Yes. The error would be to make the connection that you were
doing just because it seems that it has been around for so long time
that it seems to be immortal. But knowledge, or the Kingdom of Heaven
is purely abstraction; is light. Not a light like the body’s eyes
see but a light of understanding and wisdom (and darkness being a metaphor
for ignorance or the blockage of not being aware of that light). So
knowledge and the Kingdom of Heaven are abstract. However pure, however
stabilized the perception becomes it still is not knowledge, it is not
the abstract Kingdom. It is still perceptual and temporary and will
To finish up on the point about the ego’s uses for the body; pride,
pleasure and attack; they are all the same. You could say that pride
and pleasure are seeming forms of attack. The mind that believes it
is ego is identified with the ego and that is an attack thought. That
is an attack on the Christ within that mind, even though it has no basis
in reality, it’s given reality by the mind’s acceptance
of that thought. To the mind it seems real. And all these uses of the
body; whether we talk about pride or recognition, personal self, pleasure
and pain and so on, this attraction of guilt is all a way of concealing
the belief in separation and keeping the mind distracted on the screen.
So in that sense they are all attack thoughts, it comes down to that.
The uses that the ego puts to the body are all part of attack thoughts.
Now, if we pull it back to the ultimate sense; to the right mind and
perception. The mind cannot attack. These thoughts are unreal thoughts;
even the thoughts that are called attack thoughts are unreal. These
are thoughts that have not come from the mind of God. They do not exist.
Only the thoughts that come from God have existence.
Participant: So to speak of attack thoughts is just a manner of speaking.
Speaker: Yes, they are unreal. And a mind that is invested in them is
deceived and will experience the hallucination of pain and upset, despair,
sorrow, depression, fear and so forth, because it has invested in thoughts;
in a thought system that doesn’t come from God. So the right mind
sees that attack is literally impossible, it sees the false as false.
It is not invested in these thoughts; it sees them as false and knows
them as false. This is no different than that the Holy Spirit sees the
false ideas as false beliefs and looks to the altar, the atonement,
looks to the undefiled altar and is certain of the Christ. It always
looks to the Christ. So this is an example of, in a sense, coming in
full circle to your question about sickness, of why sickness is impossible:
the mind cannot attack. The mind is whole and the mind cannot attack,
it can make up fantasies, it can direct the body to act out fantasies
but the mind cannot attack.
Participant: And it would have to attack in order for sickness to be
Speaker: Yes, the right mind knows that the mind cannot attack. The
Holy Spirit knows that attack literally is impossible. That the ego
is an impossible thought; that all of the ego thoughts are impossible
and unreal. So it’s anchored in that. There is a part in the course
that is a reminder when one believes one is sick: “I am not a
body, and my mind cannot attack so I cannot be sick”. If there
is no identification with the body and it’s recognized and clearly
understood that the mind cannot attack, then, with those two conditions,
there is no justification for guilt. There is no attack; there is no
body with which to identify with or to attack with, so to speak. Therefore
the conditions of peace have been met because the conditions of guilt
are no longer in place. If I believe that I am a body or in a body and
that my mind or even my body can attack and that attack is real then
guilt must follow and guilt must be justified. So you can see that working
back to the right mind and being miracle minded and staying in the right
mind automatically brings about inner peace.
Participant: We talked before about in addition to perceiving my body
as sick I can perceive the body of another as sick but in either case
it’s just an indication that it’s my mind that’s sick,
that needs to be healed, and that it’s mistaken. I think that’s
an important point because I think you can perceive your body as well
and not sick but then still be perceiving sickness in someone else but
there’s really no difference, that’s what I hear you saying.
Because the perception is mistaken and healing to correct that has to
take place in the mind.
Continue to Part 17