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Going Deeper part 6 


Editor's note: This transcript has been lightly edited to bring clarification to certain points of the dialogue and for easier readability. For this reason, it does not match the corresponding audio mp3 word-for-word. However, the overall content and the expressed ideas remain unchanged.


Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 | Part 6 | Part 7 | Part 8 | Part 9 | Part 10 | Part 11 | Part 12 | Part 13 | Part 14
Part 15 | Part 16 | Part 17 | Part 18 | Part 19 | Part 20 | Part 21 | Part 22 | Part 23 | Part 24 | Part 25 | Part 26

The Contentment Beyond Belief & Constructs

Participant: Do you want to say anything about your experience of doing that?

Speaker: Well it’s been an experience of what I’ve talked about; lots of doubting, lots of doubting of myself in a sense of just feeling impelled to step back, to step back and step back in my mind.

Participant: What impelled you?

Speaker: It wasn’t anything external; it has been like a calling from deep within that has been reminding me that there’s something more than all of this. It was just a real disillusionment with having tried so many different pathways and sought out so many external things that I thought would help bring meaning to my life. That didn’t do it. And in a sense one metaphor could be like wheels; like a lot of the old watches that had these different wheels going. You can think of them as having different diameters or circumferences, and you know, being like wheels inside of wheels inside of wheels. It’s in a sense a stepping back, a hopping out and noticing you were on a wheel, pursuing something that was very circular that just didn’t get you where you thought it would, and you just kept going round and round. And then seeing that there’s a sense of stepping back and seeing the wheel and seeing that I was just in a circle of going round and round, and that there was no sense of satisfaction or fulfillment in that wheel. And then being on another wheel but not knowing it. And then going deeper into, ‘oh, what am I pursuing now…?’ Whether it is possessions or a specific kind of relationship or a specific kind of job or career, a specific kind of climate, you know, the most desirable to live in, or associating with a specific kind of people – feeling more valuable, more alive with these people than with those people…

Participant:...specific kind of activities, past times, entertainment, enjoyment…

Speaker: Right. And the body evolved in so many different ways; body skills, intelligence, ability, improvement… just wanting to improve and improve... And just stepping back on another wheel; kind of stepping out; kind of outgrowing a wheel, and then outgrowing another wheel and then outgrowing another wheel. As one goes along… I experienced this call, this pull backward, to go back, back, back in the mind and to start to really question my values. Wherever I searched for meaning in life…you know, religion, science, politics… You can search in entertainment to try to find a meaning or that particular thing that you believe will do it and it’s just seeing that that’s not it and that’s not it and that’s not it either. Just stepping back further and further leads one into metaphysics, leads one into beyond the physical. It leads one into the study of the mind and how the mind works and what perception is and emotion and thoughts, beliefs, and assumptions. And even that is just something that has to be stepped back from. I mean that in the sense of studying the mind as if you can objectify the mind as something other than. Ultimately there comes this pull - this awareness to leap from that subject/object split. Even if I’m able to talk about the mind and describe it and everything but still seeing it as something objective then, there’s still that split I’m talking about. There’s a state of being which is just a recognition of what is and in a metaphorical sense you know it’s not I that lives, it’s the Christ that lives in me. The sense of dualness disappears. There‘s not a sense of objectifying behaviour. The questions of, “What shall I do? Should I do this or should I do that?” The analyzing and all of that stops and from that clear intention, from that clear purpose everything else follows. Spirit is placed at the center. Spirit is valued. Attention is placed on the Spirit or the Voice for God or the intuition, or however you want to talk about it. But there’s such a focus and such an intention placed on that that everything else follows from that. There’s no focus and attention put on the construct anymore but simply on that intention to stay in the mind, stay in the witness, in the observer mode if you will.

Participant: So in that state there’s no need to even sense struggle over decisions. It’s more that the decisions are made but it just all kind of unfolds effortlessly, it’s just all part of the overall flow of things.

Speaker: Yes, there’s a great line in the course: A decision is a conclusion based on everything that you believe. And you know, once you step back, once you begin to see that the beliefs are part of the construct then you step back deeper and deeper and deeper to a point that’s behind and beyond the beliefs. That literally, there’s an abstraction, there’s just a state, a being, that is literally beyond belief, that is beyond thought form associations and beyond constructs. And there is rest in that state. There is contentment. There are no alternatives in that state of being. There is nothing to choose between.

Participant: Well, that’s the Atonement, right, when you get to that, when you arrive at that state…

Speaker: It just IS, yeah.

Participant: Then you can see that there are no alternatives, really.

Speaker: That’s seeing the construct as a construct. That’s seeing that there is nothing outside of me. That’s seeing and really understanding that ideas leave not their source. The world was an idea in my mind and it did not leave its source. The subject/object disappears. There’s a sense of joining, an awareness of connectedness and joining so that those constructs and differences, of body and hand and leaf and tree and butterfly and so on so forth…there is just one, that it is all just one. A construct… a fabric of the time/space universe is seen as a single fabric. There aren’t particular threads that are discerned or separated out as standing out as more valuable – more important or less important. Categorizing, organizing, analyzing, dissecting; all that is stopped. All that was a defence against the state of being, against the fact of what is.

Participant: Just seeing all the little pieces, you’re saying, is the minds defence against seeing the totality. As long as you keep focusing on individual pieces, kind of like putting a jigsaw-puzzle together, as long as you keep focusing on individual pieces to be put into the jigsaw puzzle you don’t have the whole puzzle. Or even when the whole puzzle is completed if you zone in on a particular piece, you can’t see the overall picture that’s created by having all the pieces side by side.

Speaker: Yes, the pieces imply subject and object. I mean to even talk about parts we’re back into duality and multiplicity and once again to even see the whole fabric… it’s not like seeing it as a person or seeing it through the body’s eyes of course, because there’s the multiplicity, the duality again.

Participant: The body’s eyes can’t see the whole thing. Is that what you’re saying?

Speaker: Right, but metaphorically when I say ‘see the fabric’, that is a metaphor for ‘All is one’. There is no split between subject and object and observer and observed. There’s nothing to defend in that state because there’s nothing to defend against. You need some duality to have an opposite or something to oppose or conflict with or whatever. When I see the construct or see the fabric we’re talking about the state of being, an awareness that is not a seeing in the worldly sense of seeing. In the worldly sense you say, ok, I’m standing here on the street and I see the cars and I see some of the buildings and I can see there’s some skyscrapers around. Then I walk into the Empire State Building or whatever and go up to the 15th floor and peer out of the window and then oh I see so much more! I can see further, I can see more buildings than I just saw and then go up to the 30th floor and even more! I can see farther, I can look around, I can see all around the Island of Manhattan and so forth and everything and then going to the very top and looking over and seeing the horizon and seeing a much different perspective. This is not the seeing of the whole fabric because this is still perceptual. It is perhaps a broader perspective, a different perspective each time it’s seen. It seems more and more expansive, but it’s still perceptual. You can take that and someone for instance then going in an airplane and seeing an even more expansive perspective, and then going up on a space shuttle and seeing the globe and seeing an even more expansive perspective. And then getting pictures back from a satellite that was sent from Mars and seeing an even more expansive… but these are all perceptual, all of these perspectives implies a personhood.

All of these that I have talked about can be seen through the body’s eyes. And they all involve constructs. They’re just different shifts in the construct but there comes a point in the mind where the entire cosmos is – the mind is aware that that is a construct, it’s seen as a construct. And therefore the duality ends between me – a little person – and the city in a country in a world in a solar system in a cosmos. Perception always requires a perceiver and something that is perceived. And there’s a state in which this is no longer the case that perception is literally laid aside. It no longer serves. It no longer has value. Someone may say: I like the world. I like what these eyes perceive and so forth. You know, it really comes down to peace of mind and really honestly looking at one’s life and ones emotions, ones fluctuating emotions and heartaches and whatever the form it may take, loneliness, isolation, or just an insatiable restlessness.

Participant: I guess the question is: Above all else, what do I want? And if I think above all else what I want is what I see in this world with these eyes, then I probably keep going with that until I get to a point where it doesn’t do it for me, it’s not enough. I’m tired of trying to find something there that isn’t and I come around to: above all else, I want peace now. How do I go about that?

Speaker: Yes, there’s openness in the mind. The mind that seems to be so determined to make something of itself, to make something more of itself, that is so determined to hang on to individual, unique, individuality, separateness has a crack or an opening that says there has to be something beyond all of this.

Participant: For me that opening was there when I felt like I was really in a pit in my life. I think just out of a feeling of desperation there was a willingness to open up to something else.


Continue to Part 7

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