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Going Deeper part 5 

Editor's note: This transcript has been lightly edited to bring clarification to certain points of the dialogue and for easier readability. For this reason, it does not match the corresponding audio mp3 word-for-word. However, the overall content and the expressed ideas remain unchanged.

Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 | Part 6 | Part 7 | Part 8 | Part 9 | Part 10 | Part 11 | Part 12 | Part 13 | Part 14
Part 15 | Part 16 | Part 17 | Part 18 | Part 19 | Part 20 | Part 21 | Part 22 | Part 23 | Part 24 | Part 25 | Part 26

Seeing the Construct as a Construct - The End of Ordering

Speaker: ...In that sense the construct is asking the question.

Participant: Yeah, I’m seeing that.

Speaker: The small self that’s concerned about a job or family issues or abortion or capital punishment or even... I’m a screwed up person, I’m this little person and I’m all screwed up and I don’t have it together... like so and so. With comparison once again, you have to have a subject/object split. To even compare thought forms, there is an ordering involved and with that comparison, with that ordering, the construct then asks the questions. Those aren’t real questions in the ultimate sense. Those are statements.

Participant: Statements of the construct.

Speaker: Yeah. When I say, “What about my..?” or “I have a problem with my boss…” or “I have a problem with my daughter”… and so forth, it is really the construct asking the question. “What’s wrong with my relationship with so and so?” or “What’s wrong with my life?” Really it’s just the construct asking the question. Or the construct is making the statement that it is a construct is another way of looking at it. Because the construct isn’t seen as a construct. So this brings us around full circle to defining the problem. That, even if the problem has been solved, how can one know that it has been solved if one hasn’t been able to see what the problem is?

Participant: It seems like once we can really see what the problem is, what seemed to be the problem doesn’t seem like a problem.

Participant: There is no problem

Speaker: That’s a fact: That there is no problem.

Participant: Because the only problem – every perceived problem – really is the belief in separation and there is no separation. Is that what you’re saying?

Speaker: Yeah

Participant: And so there is no problem. There are only seeming problems.

Speaker: Once the construct is seen as a construct the split is healed because there is no subject/object split any more. The problem has been seen as a problem in the mind. The split was in the mind and once it’s been given up, once it’s been seen as that’s not the fact, that that’s not what is reality, then there is no problem.

So the key idea that we opened up with is that you first have to see the problem as being in the mind and once it is recognised that the split is in the mind, not out in the world, then there is no problem.

Participant: So why doesn’t it seem that easy to do? I guess because the mind does not want to see that it is not out in the world. The mind doesn’t want to see that it’s right there in the mind.

Speaker: Well, let’s bring it back to our conversation here and pull it away from the abstract. I mean, if it doesn’t seem easy there has to be an investment in that construct and those thought form associations. Why is there such a strong investment in it? Because there’s fear, there’s fear that if I give up ordering my thoughts, if I give up the construct of who I think I am, as a person, all my meanings and associations and conclusions I’ve reached about the world, there will be loss involved…that it would be scary. Somehow the construct is serving me. It has value to me and it’s like why would I want to step back in the mind to see the bigger picture? Why would I want to question the construct if I still believe that it serves me?

Participant: There wouldn’t be any motivation. There is no point in fixing what isn’t broken.

Speaker: So, one could say, “Well, that seems awful deep. It seems awful abstract.” Let’s bring it back to the feeling level, you know. Do you feel complete stable peace in your life? Is it a rollercoaster ride? Do you have emotions? Fluctuating emotions, seeming times of peace and joy and seeming times of whatever… upset, aggravation, irritation, guilt, fear, jealousies and so on and so forth? Are they mild or major, irritation or rage, regardless of the degree, regardless of the direction? Can one start to look at one’s life and honestly look at the emotions and say, “Gee, I don’t feel a constant and consistent, stable state of peace,” that there is something here that needs to be looked at? A lot of times people have said, well you just try to minimise your demons, or your vices and everything. Manage your neurosis has come to a sense…general unhappiness, and try to manage the major crises.

Participant: Instead of particular miserableness.

Speaker: Yes. Can we come to a point where one can start to see, realistically see, the hope of completely bringing an end to all sense of upset, all sense of disorder, all sense of chaos, it is a phenomenal kind of proposition. To do that requires the questioning of the constructs. It requires that the mind let go of those thought form associations.

Participant: And you can’t let go of them unless you see that they’re there, obviously?

Speaker: Right. And you can’t see that they’re there if you believe that you are they... that you are a construct.

Participant: So, the dialogue helps to uncover, disclose, expose the constructs?

Speaker: Yes. It helps the mind see, “Oh, I thought that was me. I thought that was me, but I am not that.” It helps to step back and to dis-identify from that which it thought it was. And there’s just immense joy with that. I mean, it’s like weights of strain and stress lifted off the mind. By holding onto the construct and the thought form associations, it was denying its natural abstract state… its state of freedom. And, conversely, by being able to step back and dis-identify from the false construct, the mind is released to its natural state. And it feels a stable sense of peace and joy.

Participant: It takes a lot of energy to hold in place an idea of my self that’s not my Self.

Speaker: Yes

Participant: And I can see how freeing it is to just let go of all that garbage. That I’ve tacked on.

Speaker: In the early stages it is frightening because it seems to be a letting go of the ways of the world. The world teaches bigger, better, faster, more. “Upward mobility” for instance is a common held belief. Competition, staying ahead of the competition.

Participant: So you were saying that it feels kind of scary to think about stepping out of viable ways of the world that have become so familiar?

Speaker: Yes. Because …once again it gets back to security. The mind has placed its identity in those constructs. And it seems ludicrous to step out of ambition. It seems ludicrous…the construct says you will die, you know. It’s heard from the world of scarcity…from within the belief system of the self concept that to give up the striving and the fighting and everything, you’ll be swallowed up by this so called external world that itself is a construct, you know.

Participant: Yes, the teaching has been that it is only by setting goals and working hard and going for it that you can get anything. You know, that you can get your fair share, that you can stay ahead of the game, that you can keep your chin above water. And what your saying is, is that when you let go of that construct or that self concept that you’re also letting go of all those kinds of goals. You’re actually replacing those kinds of goals with the one goal. That being at peace…

Speaker: A unified goal of peace.

So we’re not speaking of this process of laying aside the concept as a goal-less process. It has a goal and that goal is an abstract goal…peace of mind.
There is no thought form associated with that goal. That can be seen to be very ambiguous and abstract when the mind is conditioned to pursuing, achieving concrete goals, certain outcomes that are desirable in the world’s eyes.
But that’s in effect what it is, the laying aside the worldly goals for the one goal of peace.

Continue to Part 6

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