Editor's note: This transcript has been lightly edited to bring clarification to certain points of the dialogue and for easier readability. For this reason, it does not match the corresponding audio mp3 word-for-word. However, the overall content and the expressed ideas remain unchanged.

Speaker: What it means to see yourself as mind is to pull everything back to a thought. If you can see that that’s where your attention needs to be and that is what you really are and that’s what you want to perceive yourself as. It takes that step or the leap in thinking, like in the example you were using, to go from a lousy student or someone who’s not really wholeheartedly in it, to seeing yourself as a 4.0 student, as being able to handle it. Bring it on, like you said. That’s the way to take the spiritual curriculum: bring it on! That’s the very feeling that I’ve had with this. As deep as it goes as overwhelming as it seems, bring it on, bring it on! I’ve got nothing better to do. I’ve got nothing better to apply my attention to.

Participant: Nothing more precious and nothing more important.

Speaker: And it feels that good to be able to say bring it on and then whatever seems to come on, to really be able to really look at it and deal with it. Even in the metaphor of just going and meeting with Jesus; meeting with someone who can completely read my mind and just see right through the deception. It can seem fearful even in visualization for people sometimes, to sit there right across from Jesus. Fears can come up because it’s like, ‘oh, he can see everything. I can’t conceal anything from him.’ But, the fears come in from believing reality of those thoughts. He’s saying, I see you as whole and complete. I see you as perfect. That’s why he loves me, because he sees beyond the error.

Participant 1: The thought is: there is no way he could love me when he sees who I really am.

Speaker: That’s right. The fear of Jesus looking and seeing the dirt and the muck is only the belief that the muck is real, or is me. If there is a fear that seems to be welling up underneath; take a look. That’s the thing. That’s how it’s dispelled, just by taking a good direct look at it, not by all those evasive maneuvers. I’ll get to that later. I’ll work up to that. I’m not there. I’ll work gradually towards that. All these different things… But if there is a fear there, it’s good to explore it. Just to look at it. It’s not going to disappear by wishing it away or by trying to dance around it or go around it, just thinking: if it goes away that would be great.

The miracle is to just really be anchored in the idea that appearances deceive. It doesn’t matter what the appearances are or what the situations are. It doesn’t matter what the reactions appear to be. The reactions of these so called others. When you’re in the place of seeing that images are images then it just doesn’t matter. You’re lined up with the force so to speak, or you’re lined up with the Holy Spirit then appearances just don’t matter, whatever they are.